MTV.com compares Batman and Iron Man to see who would win in a fight.
Discuss.
Full Version: Iron Man VS. Batman
Batman Batman Batman. I think we need new heroes. Real heroes. Heroes that lose once in a while. Like me. Wait, I lose all the time. Nevermind.
Heroes that lose once in awhile? Would we really want that? I don't know about you guys but if I've got someone protecting me, I wanna be sure that they're gonna be able to protect me.
Batman: Dick Grayson, a prepubescent boy in tights. Most of the rest of the Justice League wouldn't spit on him if he were on fire.
That is all...
not really.
I believe that they actually summed it up pretty well. The only discrepancy I could see is that if both funds are limitless, then one could potentially buy out the other(IDK WHY). That was all I could come up with. Well that or maybe batman would buy a suit of starks armor...now THAT would be fracking awesome! Past that I'd agree that Batman is the more solid Superhero...Based on neuroticism and Raw Determination.
Ironman 1
Batman 1.5 ^^
That is all...
not really.
I believe that they actually summed it up pretty well. The only discrepancy I could see is that if both funds are limitless, then one could potentially buy out the other(IDK WHY). That was all I could come up with. Well that or maybe batman would buy a suit of starks armor...now THAT would be fracking awesome! Past that I'd agree that Batman is the more solid Superhero...Based on neuroticism and Raw Determination.
Ironman 1
Batman 1.5 ^^
Actually, I have to agree with their assessment as well and say that they summed it up pretty well, with the possible exception of the sidekicks section.
In an unexpected fight with no preparation, yeah Iron Man probably would win simply by flying and blasting Batman from the upper atmosphere. But if Batman has time to plan, he could probably find some way to hack Iron Man's armor, or find or create a corrosive to burn through it. Even without preparation, Batman might be able to find a way to take Iron Man down, perhaps with a sizable EMP or electrical blast.
In an unexpected fight with no preparation, yeah Iron Man probably would win simply by flying and blasting Batman from the upper atmosphere. But if Batman has time to plan, he could probably find some way to hack Iron Man's armor, or find or create a corrosive to burn through it. Even without preparation, Batman might be able to find a way to take Iron Man down, perhaps with a sizable EMP or electrical blast.
I didn't really like the intellect argument. Batman's the smartest in the DCU, well, he also doesn't have near the level of competition that Stark does. Marvel has tons of geniuses, while DC only has a few.
I guess the most accurate way to decide would be to compare him to the likes of richards, doom, etc
Should the intellectual argument really be brought up when considering two guys who each, through their own inept planning, brought their own worlds to the brink of destruction in recent years? 
QUOTE(Trebor @ Apr 30 2008, 04:23 PM) 
I didn't really like the intellect argument. Batman's the smartest in the DCU, well, he also doesn't have near the level of competition that Stark does. Marvel has tons of geniuses, while DC only has a few.
???
Just the hero geniuses that I could come up with (the villain list would be even longer)...
Superman
Mr. Terrific (either one)
Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
Steel (John Henry Irons)
Martian Manhunter
Oracle
Dr. Will Mangus
The Atom (both Ray Palmer and Ryan Choi)
Cyborg
The Flash (Jay Garrick)
These are just the "science/tech" geniuses. There are other forms of genius as well. For example, Wonder Woman is a genius in most senses of the word, in the abilities of quick analysis, over knowledge, etc.
Was blue beetle really a genius? I just don't know, so I'm curious...
I didn't know Superman was considered a genius.
I'll tackle both of these... 
Yes. Keep in mind, he built all of his equipment himself, and had a successful technology company until it was suborned from him. The "Countdown to Infinite Crisis" special had a screen in which Brother Eye listed various heroes' special abilities; Blue Beetle's was listed as "Genius IQ: 192". Keep in mind, average is the range from 90-110. Genius is considered to start at 140.
It varies a bit depending on continuity; Silver Age was definitely a genius, as he was given super-intelligence by the yellow sun in addition to his other abilities. This is why Silver Age Krypto was essentially human intelligence as well; he was a super-intelligent dog. Post-Crisis, this does not appear to be the case, but you've still got a person who is able to figure out alien technology with a minimum of documentation and create and use all sorts of devices for himself, so genius is still probably valid.
QUOTE(retro22 @ Apr 30 2008, 05:02 PM)
Was blue beetle really a genius? I just don't know, so I'm curious...
Yes. Keep in mind, he built all of his equipment himself, and had a successful technology company until it was suborned from him. The "Countdown to Infinite Crisis" special had a screen in which Brother Eye listed various heroes' special abilities; Blue Beetle's was listed as "Genius IQ: 192". Keep in mind, average is the range from 90-110. Genius is considered to start at 140.
QUOTE(KilljoyBob @ Apr 30 2008, 05:54 PM)
I didn't know Superman was considered a genius.
It varies a bit depending on continuity; Silver Age was definitely a genius, as he was given super-intelligence by the yellow sun in addition to his other abilities. This is why Silver Age Krypto was essentially human intelligence as well; he was a super-intelligent dog. Post-Crisis, this does not appear to be the case, but you've still got a person who is able to figure out alien technology with a minimum of documentation and create and use all sorts of devices for himself, so genius is still probably valid.
Though he's also capable of view all of that technology on levels we could never even comprehend with his different visual acuities.
Cool, I knew we'd be able to discuss this intelligently without having a noob war like so many other boards when comparing different company's characters.
Well, they each had their flaws then. I'm not sure about Iron Man currently, but I know Batman has overcome his paranoia and he's now able to work with his allies much better. He's even called upon Zatanna a number of times despite her past actions against him. That's why I think the only part the article slips up on (as others have said) is the sidekicks breakdown. Their rundown for the DCU's feelings toward Batman are a bit outdated. I think he's regaining a lot of their trust and he'd probably be able to call in for quite a bit of support if he needed it.
QUOTE(Chaomancer Omega @ Apr 30 2008, 06:29 PM)
Should the intellectual argument really be brought up when considering two guys who each, through their own inept planning, brought their own worlds to the brink of destruction in recent years?
Well, they each had their flaws then. I'm not sure about Iron Man currently, but I know Batman has overcome his paranoia and he's now able to work with his allies much better. He's even called upon Zatanna a number of times despite her past actions against him. That's why I think the only part the article slips up on (as others have said) is the sidekicks breakdown. Their rundown for the DCU's feelings toward Batman are a bit outdated. I think he's regaining a lot of their trust and he'd probably be able to call in for quite a bit of support if he needed it.
Last I saw, Iron Man was pretty much still vilified by the anti-Registration crowd and a good portion of the pro-Registration crowd as well...
Where as Stark actually has alienated a fair number of his fellow heroes, most of which would now only come to his aid in the event of a world shattering crisis.
Where's Zatanna when you need her?
Plus we all know Iron Man sucks at magic.
QUOTE(Chaomancer Omega @ Apr 30 2008, 10:29 PM)
Yes. Keep in mind, he built all of his equipment himself, and had a successful technology company until it was suborned from him. The "Countdown to Infinite Crisis" special had a screen in which Brother Eye listed various heroes' special abilities; Blue Beetle's was listed as "Genius IQ: 192". Keep in mind, average is the range from 90-110. Genius is considered to start at 140.
Wow, that IQ makes my 142 look measly
(though I haven't taken a recent test...that is relatively out of date...kinda want to see my updated scores)QUOTE(Trebor @ Apr 30 2008, 11:03 PM)
Where as Stark actually has alienated a fair number of his fellow heroes, most of which would now only come to his aid in the event of a world shattering crisis.
but he can always count on war machine and pepper potts...I hope
QUOTE(Trebor @ May 1 2008, 01:53 AM)
Plus we all know Iron Man sucks at magic.
Took someone long enough
And do DC and Marvel have stat rankings on these people? Like a ranking system of sorts.
So that we could get the official word on this matter. Or perhaps just make our own ranking system and then mail it off to them to see if they concur? *shrugs* maybe I'm just a bit overzealous.
QUOTE(retro22 @ May 1 2008, 10:43 AM)
Wow, that IQ makes my 142 look measly (though I haven't taken a recent test...that is relatively out of date...kinda want to see my updated scores)
(though I haven't taken a recent test...that is relatively out of date...kinda want to see my updated scores)Let us know when you start creating super hero tech.
QUOTE
And do DC and Marvel have stat rankings on these people? Like a ranking system of sorts.
So that we could get the official word on this matter. Or perhaps just make our own ranking system and then mail it off to them to see if they concur? *shrugs* maybe I'm just a bit overzealous.
So that we could get the official word on this matter. Or perhaps just make our own ranking system and then mail it off to them to see if they concur? *shrugs* maybe I'm just a bit overzealous.
Marvel does on their website - Here's Iron Man's page. You gotta love that background image they used for him. Very heroic.
As for DC, I don't think so really. They had an RPG from the late 80's/early 90's but it wouldn't really be valid nowadays. I think you pretty much have to go off of one of Marvel's ranking systems and take your best guess at where DC characters would stack up on it. I've done that with a few of the Marvel RPGs I've bought over the years.
Really, the question of who each hero could call to his aid is invalid anyway. Then, the fight is no longer "Batman vs. Iron Man," it's "JLA vs. The Avengers."
QUOTE(Chaomancer Omega @ Apr 30 2008, 10:29 PM)
It varies a bit depending on continuity; Silver Age was definitely a genius, as he was given super-intelligence by the yellow sun in addition to his other abilities. This is why Silver Age Krypto was essentially human intelligence as well; he was a super-intelligent dog. Post-Crisis, this does not appear to be the case, but you've still got a person who is able to figure out alien technology with a minimum of documentation and create and use all sorts of devices for himself, so genius is still probably valid.
CO pretty much nailed it. In the Silver Age, Superman was always building something up in the Fortress to aid mankind (much to the chagrin of Lex Luthor). He made robot duplicates of himself (as both Superman and Clark Kent to aid in the keeping of his secret identity) as well as Lois, Perry, Jimmy, and Batman. This is reflected in Superman: The Animated Series; watch the first season, and count how many times he figures out some technological or scientific thing that baffles STAR Labs.
Post-Crisis this was downplayed, along with all of his other powers. I attribute this also to the popularity of Dark Knight Returns, in which Miller depicts essentially a meathead all-American Superman. However, post-Infinite Crisis, the re-powered Superman seems to regain his heightened analytical skills. In Morrison's All-Star Superman, he takes the "techno wiz" Silver Age Superman and magnifies times 20... the Fortress Of Solitude is a technological marvel.
QUOTE(K26dp @ May 1 2008, 08:00 PM)
He made robot duplicates of himself (as both Superman and Clark Kent to aid in the keeping of his secret identity) as well as Lois, Perry, Jimmy, and Batman.
Would that be Cyborg superman, or is that something completely different?
Cyborg Superman is different, and just a teensy bit complicated:
Short gist is that DC did an arc of Superman which was a bit of a Fantastic Four pastiche, with the twists that all the powers were fairly negative, and all the characters wound up dying despite Superman's efforts to save them. With one exception: Hank Henshaw. Superman thought he had died, but this turned out to not be the case. Henshaw has the ability to manipulate metal, and his spirit stayed alive even when separated from his body. Eventually he found an old Kryptonian spaceship and used that to build himself into the Cyborg Superman, as he had come to blame Superman for all of his problems and wanted revenge by destroying Superman's reputation while the real thing was dead. Didn't work, due to Superman's actual resurrection. All these years later, he still holds a grudge, and is still looking for a way to die himself.
Short gist is that DC did an arc of Superman which was a bit of a Fantastic Four pastiche, with the twists that all the powers were fairly negative, and all the characters wound up dying despite Superman's efforts to save them. With one exception: Hank Henshaw. Superman thought he had died, but this turned out to not be the case. Henshaw has the ability to manipulate metal, and his spirit stayed alive even when separated from his body. Eventually he found an old Kryptonian spaceship and used that to build himself into the Cyborg Superman, as he had come to blame Superman for all of his problems and wanted revenge by destroying Superman's reputation while the real thing was dead. Didn't work, due to Superman's actual resurrection. All these years later, he still holds a grudge, and is still looking for a way to die himself.
QUOTE(Chaomancer Omega @ May 2 2008, 03:18 PM)
and is still looking for a way to die dye himself.
Fixed that for you. The guy really wants to be part of the Blueman Group.
Wow, that's quite a bit different. Very insightful, thank you CO. 
back, more on topic at least:
Who does batman get his gadgets from, or does he build them himself as stark does?
As I just remember in TDK that there was a store house, but I can't remember for the life of me who his supplier was.
back, more on topic at least:
Who does batman get his gadgets from, or does he build them himself as stark does?
As I just remember in TDK that there was a store house, but I can't remember for the life of me who his supplier was.
He designs them himself, and orders the necessary components. Some from his own companies. Of course, some designs are modified from existing Wayne Enterprises projects.
When I was younger, I had two different short story compilations about Batman. I can't remember what they were called, but one of the stories was about the guy that makes the costumes for Batman and his villains. I think. It was a long time ago.
A quick side note: If anyone remembers the books I'm talking about, please let me know. One of them contained one of my favorite Joker stories ever, where the Joker, while hiding out from the cops in a hotel room, decides to call a "party line" and convinces one of the people on the line to kill himself (or tries, at least. I can't remember if he actually gets him to do it). I would LOVE to own that book again.
I just remembered another Joker story, where Batman has to go undercover as a stand-up comedian because the Joker is killing shitty stand-up acts. That one was also very good.
A quick side note: If anyone remembers the books I'm talking about, please let me know. One of them contained one of my favorite Joker stories ever, where the Joker, while hiding out from the cops in a hotel room, decides to call a "party line" and convinces one of the people on the line to kill himself (or tries, at least. I can't remember if he actually gets him to do it). I would LOVE to own that book again.
I just remembered another Joker story, where Batman has to go undercover as a stand-up comedian because the Joker is killing shitty stand-up acts. That one was also very good.
Were they supposed to be children's books, or just books you had when you were younger?
That'll just help my search when I go looking for them(once I get back to regular net access).
That'll just help my search when I go looking for them(once I get back to regular net access).
Tales of the Batman
The story you're thinking of Revil is called "Neutral Ground". About a shop owner named Kittlemeier who repairs and builds new costumes and gadgets for Batman and a few less reputable figures. One of the things I loved the most about this short story was that none of the clients are identified by name but by very distinct and obvious (to Batman readers) characteristics. This was also one of my favorite stories from the collection and is actually included as an excerpt in the Amazon listing.
This was a really great book. My dad used to read me one story each night before bed. I'd highly recommend it to anyone interested in some less conventional Batman stories. I also remember the other story Revil's talking about where Batman disguises himself as a nightclub comedian (I don't remember if he ever went onstage though) but it was a very cool example of one of Batman's many talents. Much like Batman: The Animated Series, the short stories were excellent at showcasing the different abilities that Batman is a master of. I don't remember the other Joker story where he tries to get someone to kill themself but we may not have gotten to that story.
Here's a list of the stories contained and their authors:
Neutral Ground - Mike Resnick
Command Performance - Howard Goldsmith
Subway Jack - Joe R. Lansdale
Northwestward - Isaac Asimov
Museum Piece - Mike Resnick
Wise Men of Gotham - Edward Wellen
Robber's Roost - Max Allen Collins
Brothers in Crime - William F Nolan
Death of the Dreammaster - Robert Sheckley
On a Beautiful Summer's Day, He Was - Robert R. McCammon
The Joker's War - Robert Sheckley
Endangered Species - Greg Cox
Copycat - John Gregory Betancourt
A Harlot's Tears - Ed Gorman
Reformed - John Gregory Betancourt
Vulture: A Tale of the Penguin - Steve Rasnictem
The story you're thinking of Revil is called "Neutral Ground". About a shop owner named Kittlemeier who repairs and builds new costumes and gadgets for Batman and a few less reputable figures. One of the things I loved the most about this short story was that none of the clients are identified by name but by very distinct and obvious (to Batman readers) characteristics. This was also one of my favorite stories from the collection and is actually included as an excerpt in the Amazon listing.
This was a really great book. My dad used to read me one story each night before bed. I'd highly recommend it to anyone interested in some less conventional Batman stories. I also remember the other story Revil's talking about where Batman disguises himself as a nightclub comedian (I don't remember if he ever went onstage though) but it was a very cool example of one of Batman's many talents. Much like Batman: The Animated Series, the short stories were excellent at showcasing the different abilities that Batman is a master of. I don't remember the other Joker story where he tries to get someone to kill themself but we may not have gotten to that story.
Here's a list of the stories contained and their authors:
Neutral Ground - Mike Resnick
Command Performance - Howard Goldsmith
Subway Jack - Joe R. Lansdale
Northwestward - Isaac Asimov
Museum Piece - Mike Resnick
Wise Men of Gotham - Edward Wellen
Robber's Roost - Max Allen Collins
Brothers in Crime - William F Nolan
Death of the Dreammaster - Robert Sheckley
On a Beautiful Summer's Day, He Was - Robert R. McCammon
The Joker's War - Robert Sheckley
Endangered Species - Greg Cox
Copycat - John Gregory Betancourt
A Harlot's Tears - Ed Gorman
Reformed - John Gregory Betancourt
Vulture: A Tale of the Penguin - Steve Rasnictem
Wow, Twinky knew the Batman books Revil was talking about...
I am completely shocked.
I am completely shocked.
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