Arena gear is sometimes referred to as "Epic Welfare" because of the relative ease in getting really high level gear without needing to be an expert player.

Level 70 members of our guild are beginning to become more interested in Arenas as a way to earn better gear. As solo players the best we could do was originally Season 1 (S1 ~ Tier 4) gear by going to battlegrounds and several of us have that set for our class. Now BGs offer S2 gear. Arena rewards however are now offering S4 which is roughly equivalent to Tier 6.5. Even unsuccessful teams still will get one piece of gear about every 6 to 7 weeks playing 10 arena battles per week. Better teams playing at least 3x3 can earn one piece about every 2 to 4 weeks. These are higher level versions of the pieces costing 12k to 25k BG honor.

These new items "match sets" with lower level sets giving an immediate gain without needing to wait to build full S4 gear sets. New level 70s who choose to play both BGs and Arenas therefore can gear up pretty quickly. Even more quickly if we can continue to run higher instances. (I remind those approaching 70 that "quickly" has a very different meaning in the world of high level play, lol.)

As more of us become interested in Arenas, we have a real opportunity to "balance" the composition of our teams to achieve maximum success. To my knowledge none of us has enough experience to be considered an arena expert. If you are interested in taking advantage of this opportunity, please take a look at the WoW armory arena rankings and see how the successful teams are composed and how their members have worked their talent builds.

Perel was the founder of the original "Deviants of Azeroth" 3x3 team. That team is defunct. I founded "D O A" 3x3. Current members are Boz, Grette, Oogrian, and Crosslock. We played 0 for 10 two weeks ago and have not returned. I understand that Flaval and Kightstalker may have a 2x2 up and running.

Aside from the team founder, any player may switch teams. A given player may only belong to one team of a given size (2 player, 3 player, etc.) at a time. A team is limited to a number of members equal to 1 1/2 times its size, rounded up. So a 3x3 team may have up to 5 members. I think we should strive to form as many well balanced teams of as many sizes as reasonable. The minimum 10 required weekly battles can be accomplished in less than an hour.

I would hope to improve tactics so that we can win and gear up faster. Starting out is a truly horrible experience since you start against teams at the middle 1500 team rank which often include new teams composed of very well geared and experienced players. We had our @$$es handed to us 10 times in a row in very short order. It may take us 20 more trips to the arena to begin to understand how to win but that is less total time than one run through Shadow Lab.

What do you all think?

I have a 2v2 team with 4 people set up. Can't remember who is in it, but we're sadly maxed out on size. Ran a couple BGs, and got torched. But the teams are out there to be made.

I don't think the S4 for helms are all that great. They are better than what we've got, but not by leaps and bounds. Example:

S2 Helm (I have thru PvP)
# Head
# 775 Armor
# +37 Agility
+19 Intellect
+55 Stamina
# Meta Socket Meta Socket
Red Socket Red Socket
# Socket Bonus: +4 Resilience Rating
# Durability 85 / 85
# Classes: Hunter
# Requires Level 70
# Equip: Improves resilience rating by 22.
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 22.
Equip: Increases attack power by 50.

S4 Helm:
902 Armor
+37 Agility
+27 Intellect
+67 Stamina
Meta Socket
Red Socket
Socket Bonus: +4 Resilience Rating
Durability 85 / 85
Classes: Hunter
Requires Level 70
Requires personal and team arena rating of 1700
Equip: Improves melee hit rating by 17.
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 30.
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 22.
Equip: Increases attack power by 66.
Equip: Your attacks ignore 84 of your opponent's armor.

T6 Helm (Mount Hyjal)
830 Armor
+45 Agility
+29 Intellect
+45 Stamina
Red Socket
Meta Socket
Socket Bonus: +4 Critical Strike Rating
Durability 85 / 85
Classes: Hunter
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases attack power by 90.
Equip: Restores 8 mana per 5 sec.

As you can see, the T6 helm is geared for the long battle (MP5 to last longer, AP to hit harder,Agi to improve almost all Hunter stats, and Int for a larger mana pool), where the PvP helms are geared for a fight where you know you'll die but you need the big hits (Crit for big hit, Stam to live longer, Resiliance to reduce damage).

I'd personally rather have better all round stats and more agility, which for a hunter gets more dodge, AP, armor, and crit for both me and my pet. That being said, I'm likely NEVER going to see the inside of Hyjal, so the Tier 6 stuff is out. So our only real bets are either the dungeon sets that drop from level 70 bosses, Badge gear from doing heroics, or PvP via arena and BG.

I've said before that our BEST bet is getting in instances. That gear is made for use in PvE game. Resiliance reduces DoTs and Crits on you, something you don't see tons of in PvE play. But our best bet isn't the easiest. It's rare that we have a "correct" set of 70's on-Tank, Healer, and 3 others. Without that, we're not going anywhere other than BGs and Arenas. So we're stuck. Where do we want to go? Do we want to work up our lower level tanks and healers (various Druids, Warriors, my Pally, and Kat, Svu, and other priests) or do we run with what we have and take an instance run when we can get it? That's what we need to be asking ourselves.

Oogie, your post is right on the mark in my opinion. PvP play gives PvP type rewards. This often works well for tanks and Affliction 'locks; not so well for other classes and builds. Your examples show the kind of insight and planning that all 70s should be doing.

An example from my main is: I will not be able to spec Destruction unless/until I am able to get serious plus spell crit gear. What need has Crosslock for all his current gear stamina adds in an instance run with a great tank, healer, and pets for off-tanks when required? My solution has been to "gem up" a full S1 set to add as much spell damage as possible. This has made Crosslock a pretty formidable all round character (in terms of capabilities, I'm not discussing my successes or failings as a player). Others may generalize for their own particular situation. No question though that 'lock would benefit from S4 gear. Instance gear would open up the possibility to respec for destruction. I think you all might like it if I could deal out a 10k crit Shadowbolt once in a while.

My goal, as I have said perhaps too often, is for our guild to "earn" its way into Kara before the WotLK release. We do not run enough instances currently to make it on those alone. What I am suggesting is the Threefold Path to Deviant Glory.

1. When you are solo, get thee to BGs. Or, when BG gear doesn't fit your build, get to farming so that you can make or help another guildie make the best available gear for you.

2. When we are on with a few, try to get to 10 arenas per team per week.

3. When we are 5 with time, we go to instances. (More than 5 means we choose based on criteria listed elsewhere.)

All 3 paths require research. You should know what is available, know what is best for you, know who can help you get it, know what mats they need to help you. Example, Crosslock needs to run higher level instances and heroics to find more gem patterns for himself and the guild. Hyjal is one zone where epic gems drop from mobs and nodes. You should know where you need to go next, which instances advance your personal development. Know going in to an instance what may drop for you. I read and bookmark the WoWiki pages for the instances I need.

Thanks Oog for the well considered response. Anyone else?

I agree with the Threefold plan. If we are going to become Kara ready before Lich King than this seems the most economical. I would love to join an arena team. I'm not PvP geared, but i don't really have time to become PvP geared before LK. And, even if it takes a few weeks of getting my @** handed to me, at least I am getting better gear. I was looking at a GORGEOUS shield for me earlier today. Not just pretty, but very useful . Also, I'm much more motivated currently to get money for my epic flying than I am to do BGs all day long, so I get very little honor for PvP goodies

Its a tough spot.

Gamplay in arenas is way different from BG PvP...let alone PvE. For Arena training it would be recommended dueliing, lot's of dueling. And of course, go and get ganked in arena itself.

Either way, in my personal opinion, "kara ready" is not only about gear. Its about team play, leadership, responsability and the ability of the player to fulfill what is expected of his rol on the encounter being played. And this is something you can "grind". Yeah, if I don't run instances I can get rep gear and glyphs by killing 1200 mobs who yield 5 rep. But would that contribute to my skill as a player?

IMHO (note the H, please, as I don't consider myslef a very experient player) we should be focusing our efforts towards heroics. Yeah, we may wipe a lot. Or maybe not. Still, we need the combat experience, i know we do. And I believe that is one of the most important parts. I was reading the "recommended requierements" to enter kara, speaking of stats and such. For example, for MM hunters as myself:
- 1500 RAP (check)
- 8k Hit points (check)

Other things will help, but many will be get "there". Nevertheless I don't feel prepared. Why? Cause i KNOW i'm missing lots of exerience (not xp, lol).

Don't get me wrong: i love to play arenas. And it is a way of "killing time and getting gear", but as stated, it's PvP gear. If we are on a PvE road, we must make our efforts there. I'm one of oog's mates in the 2vs2 team, lol.

So... i'd be so happy to see a "Ramps Heroics" slot on my calendar, which i check as I log in everyday...

See ya!

Note: My english writing is not always the best. I hope i could explain my point as inteded. I was not trying to "lecture" nor something like that, just to give a different opinion. Tahnks