Sparked by Tori's post and some online discussion, I've created this poll. Ultimately, we as a guild need to decide what we want to do. Please think carefully about the choices above, and know that there are some things that will be asked of you. The title mentions being 80, but I'm asking everyone to vote, 80 or not. Cause if you aren't yet, I'd hope that soon you'd have one, or multiple, toons at 80, and then this becomes relivant to you.

If you choose-

1. PvP- this is something you will likely often do alone. We can group, but most PvP stuff is more of a solo effort.

2.Heroics/Raid- this is going to require that you have some of the best crafted gear available. It will require that you assist those who can make said crafted gear farm it up, and if needed, hit the AH for things like Frozen Orbs.

3.Leveling- if you want to go this route, this will again likely be a solo/small group thing. The Guides and Proven folks are available to help run lower level instances, provided they are scheduled on the calender and you have quests to get done there. Running for gear is also doable, but questing is easier at first.

4.Hang with peeps- this is totally fine by me, and I think most of the guild. However, don't expect high level crafters to go out of their way to make you the best gear if it's not going to be used for anything.

5.Yes, Virginia, there is a point to WoW. If you don't know that, maybe you need to pay a little more attention.

How about Arena teams?



How about getting gear from rep and lvl 80 dungeons?

I voted: Heroics and Raids! I want Tier Gear!

This poll is going to help us know where the Deviants want to go with the guild, that's ofcourse, assuming most of them actually take the poll

I just wanted to clarify one thing, but Khor beated me to it , when thinking about PVE and runing instances, yes, crafted gear helps... A LOT, but it's far from being the only way of getting ready for it. I personally didn't get any crafted gear, asides from one of the rings and a trinket  that I made for myself when I started tanking. But the rest..., it was a combination of Quest Rewards, Rep Gear and some boss drops that I got when runing instances on my greens  

I think that what's happening here is that people are scared of heroic runs, because they think lvl80 Heroics are as hard as lvl70 heroics were back then, and truth be told... they're not... this is not the place to talk about it, but just starting with UK heroic, is very easy for a lvl80 with some rep gear, some nice gems, and some passable enchants... You start getting the experience you need there, and some of the gear too... then you move on to Nexus or DTK.. and so on...

Like I said, this is not the place, but trust me..., starting heroics it's not that hard, you can't be on all greens, ofcourse, but if you did your job lvling.., you shouldn't be



Cya

Heroics and raids is what I voted for.

A few of us have already cleared Heroic UK a couple of times. Need to get into the rest. I know they are doable.

..altho obviously I am not a one toon person ;p

and again to clarify... I know crafted isn't the only way to get gear..sheesh.. look at my gear as shabby as it is.. there is rep stuff in there and dungeon drops..

Khor said:
How about getting gear from rep and lvl 80 dungeons?

That's what the runs scheduled on the calendar were supposed to help with.

Good thread Oog. This is what I was trying to get at in my post to the Wrath thread.

I have made or purchased the best I can get alone. Tori is making an off-hand for me. To echo Oog, if you want crafted gear, you need to be the one doing the farming or purchasing at AH. I don't mean a one-to-one trade of mats plus tip for gear. We are a guld after all. I do mean you need to be steadily supporting the crafter(s) that you hope will be able to support you.

Crosslock is about done with soloing. My vote is for lvl80 dungeons, heroics, and raids. When lock is completely through getting as good as possible on my own, I will be switching to my DK. At that point, I'll be seeking guildmates of like level to run that stuff.

Now that Svuka is finally 80, I have been trying to get her leatherworking up so I can make her better gear so she can run level 80 heroics and instances. I don't mind farming as I can get to it early in the morning before my first meetings of the day. My routine has become, wake up, shower. log in, do daily Dal cooking quest, farm for elementals, leather or meat (for the cooking quest).

My leatherworking is around 425 or so, let me know if there is something I can make for you to help you out. I don't have all the cool patterns yet but am working on it.

I am also working on leveling my priest. Huge thanks to my guildies for helping out there. Flaval, Kight and Kitt have all grouped with her and made Hellfire way less hellish My thinking has been if we get another solid healer up there in levels we can do more raids and such. I should mention that I played a priest for years on Everquest so am pretty confident I can learn to be a healer on WoW. If you don't already know this my priest is specced Shadow at the moment.

So, although I answered "Raid and Heroics", I am also leveling an alt so we can run multiple heroics

I too am in the high level dungeons/heroics/raid camp. Seems like everyone is. I think this is where we are, however, getting into a circular thinking issue. Let's stop and look at it.

You hit 80, and want to run some level 80 dungeons to get gear (as Khor as suggested). However, you got to 80 without doing anything in Icecrown or Storm Peaks. This is easily done. However, doing this means that you've missed out on most of the rep grinding and higher level quest gear. So, without that, you're only gear is through crafting. So you aren't really built for 80 dungeons, but that's where your gear is. This means the over-geared people have to carry the less geared. This can get ugly.

Here is my point-looks like everyone wants to raid. Fine. However, I think we'd all be best served by getting the best gear that can be made for your class up front. Wouldn't you rather do normal 80 dungeons with near Heroic level gear? Or do those rep grinds hat much faster. I'm all for gear from rep factions and quests, but a lot of it just isn't better then craftable. So why not push to get the best we all can, or anyone and everyone who wants it, and use that as a baseline. Then you can fill in items as you get drops. Let's face it, items like Belt, Shoulders, Off Hands, and Trinkets are tough to come by. Why not have the rest of your slots already set up with gear that's above average?

I have yet to touch Storm Peaks or Icecrown in terms of quests (still working through Grizzly Hills and haven't done anything in Gun'Drak either) so I fall into that camp of "not enough rep." Haven't even met the Sons of Hodir yet. My gear has so far proven decent enough for the Level 80 dungeons I've been in, and we spanked the hell out of CoT: Stratholme. I don't believe I'm ready for Heroics, though there's a healing mace in Heroic Nexus that has my name all over it.

I'm not sure what a resto shaman needs to reach that next level in terms of spellpower, mana, mana regen, and what-not.


Anyway, yeah, I want to do the heroics/raids route. PvP is nice for time-killing and achievements, but it's never been something I've enjoyed.

That said, I DO still want to finish off the rest of the zones quest-wise and get as many achievements as I possibly can. Mmmm...achievements...

So I went the other way and hit up the socialising aspect of the game. I always have the most fun when a bunch of us get together and do something... The aborted Elder raid on Stratholme... Spanking Onyxia... Good times.

Given the way everyone else is voting it appears that much of the socialising will be taking place inside dungeons... I'm cool with that.

I voted heroics and raids. You all know i am not on when most others are so I am not expecting to get into as many Doungens and Raids as everyone else but that dosent mean I never will (the want is there just not the daytime job or free time to join) am hope'n for some sunday raids around 6 pm server time (8pm CST) but I still will not be able to make them on said day every time. Have been lvl'n my priest with Whatsmercy and I hope to continue to do so. My DK reached 77 this morning. Unda & I have been lvl'n his priest and my hunter when we are able to hook up, so more hopes for heals with that and some dps. We are at 63 or 64. Hope to see everone when I can enjoy the guild and everyone in it. just wish i could be of more help or talk my wife into letting me play more!!! She still thinks play to much as it is.

Given the chatty nature of the guild, I imagine the social aspect will still stay the same The Onxyia raid was VERY doable and a LOT of fun. I will research some other old time raids and set something up.

So I have done some thinking and some research. I have starting building a plan to obtain upgrades for my hunter.

Items that are attainable for me:

Head Item
Truesight Ice Blinders – Engineering 400
Mats = 4 Eternal Waters, 1 Frozen Orb, 4 Heavy Borean Leather, 8 Titanimum Bar, 2 Twilight Opals

For this item I will need the help of an engineer. I can get most of the mats either by farming or in the AH. With farming I can get the Leather and the Eternal Water, all other items I can get in the AH.

Neck Item
Spiked Collar of Servitude = Quest Reward
A Hero's Burden – Schlozar Basin

I have not completed the quest chain that leads up to this quest. I believe I will need some help with this quest once I get to it. Once I can get online, I can figure out which of the quests I need.

Leg Item
Giantmain Legguards – Leatherworking 440
Mats = 12 Heavy Borean Leather, 6 Eternal Water, 6 Eternal Air, 1 Frozen Orb

Tori has kindly offered to make these for me as my leatherworking is only 426. I can obtain most of the mats and actually have most already, just need to pick up a Frozen Orb in the AH.

Back
Ice Striker's Cloak – Leatherworking 440
Mats = 2 Artic Fur, 6 Eternal Fire, 4 Eternal Shadow, 1 Frozen Orb

I need to do some farming to get the mats for this and also need to hit the AH for a Frozen Orb.

Ranged
Drake-Mounted Crossbow - Ingvar the Plunderer Drop 19% chance of Drop
Heroic Utgarde Keep
Will need a group to help with this. I just missed out on a group last night because my computer froze up in Dalran.

Or

Polished Zombie Exterminator – Quest Reward – Ice Crown
No Rest for the Wicked – Requires a Group
I need to pick up the quest chain that results in this quest.


Those couple of things will be my priority but I will also be trying to upgrade my rings and trinkets.

If you would like to do similar research, check out your character on Be Imba (which has been linked here a couple of times). I found that I had 9 low level items. I clicked on the "low level" items link to see which they were, then I clicked on the plus sign under that item in my "Current Gear" which opened a separate window with items on Wowhead. I clicked on Item Level to short it by highest level item first. Then I scanned down the list and looked at items listed there to see what I felt I could attain.

I voted enthusiastically for heroics and raids!

BUT, I enjoy ALL the aspects of the game and the guild.

I love the social interaction. We live on top of a mountain in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California. We can be snowed in for many days and my guildies have become friends. I enjoy helping peeps to quest and making them potions and anything else I can do to help.

I love questing. Like Slov, my DK has yet to even venture into Icecrown or Storm Peaks. These adventures still lie ahead to do at my leisure when I am 80. My healer, who has been 80 for quite a while still loves to quest.

I love PVP. SOmetimes you just want to go out and interact in this very special way. I loved the arenas, and miss being part of a team. WG and the BSs are way cool.

I also have other toons that I am bringing up. Each one is so different. I LOVE my healer and I LOVE healing, however, some days I enjoy KILLING much more, and my DK rules! She is a leatherworker who makes things to help guildies and makes things for my Mage to DE. My Mage is a tailor/enchanter who makes things for guildies and DE's for mats for enchanting herself and all my toons and other guildies. My warrior is a miner/Blacksmith who will eventually be able to make things for my DK, but now makes things for other guildies (low level) and for DE for mats for the Mage. It is my plan to bring them up so that they will be able to better support each other in their work and better support the guild. I WILL continue to level them to that end.

I even enjoy the hours of farming it takes to be of value to the guild. When I have had a stressful day or have spent hours hooked up to an IV, this is my WOW of choice. I can sit back, chat in guild, and farm or fish and refresh. Then I'm ready to go out and KILL again

I voted for heroics and raid even though I'm not level 80 but I enjoy all aspects of the game. Playing, killing, farming, helping, teasing Ruthie..(or getting teased)... perfect way to spend a day!

(and you should have had a "wearing womens clothes option for tommy!)

Hey Svu, it's always nice to have a shopping list Let me know if you ever need help with getting any of those items... I'll help as much as I can. But just a heads up:

That item requires Engineering 400, which means, if you don't have that skill and lvl, you can't use that item... There are other items that can replace that ofcourse..




Later

Omen! I forgot to mention the Omen raid. That was a blast and a half, I died so many times and had a ball. That was a fun raid specifically because of the fluffy nature it had. I don't think there were too many of us taking it super seriously... I mean, obviously we were there to kill Omen and we weren't leaving until it was done, but I don't think any of us was too worried about whether we died a few times (or more than a few, as the case may have been). Obviously the real raids will be far more serious, as dying would actually be detrimental, but any time we can get as many of us together as possible for one of these fluffy, fun, seasonal raids I am there with bells (and maybe a dress) on...


You're just jealous because I fill out the dresses more than you do, Kitten...

Note that I don't say "fill out the dresses better," just more...

Well dang...I missed that one line in the description. I have 426 in leatherworking...so I don't think that will help. I have more than enough stuff on my list now though.

I'm sensing some either-or thinking here and I'd like to clarify my personal gear quest as an example. (All info checked through BeImba and its links to wowhead.) For pre-raid instances with no arena: my best available off-hand, one trinket, neck, chest, and gloves are crafted, legs and shoulders are PvP honor, boots are WG marks, wand and dagger are dungeon boss random drops, other trinket and some armor enhancements are exaulted rep required, and so on. Of the crafted items: Tori made the off-hand, I did the JC, the rest was AH. To buy the mats, gear, and enhancements have cost me over 3000 gold in the last five days. This doesn't count the mats Tori and Sorroh have consumed helping me with gear and enchants.

As a result, I am ready to do my part in heroics and beginning Northrend raiding. My point however is not "yay me," it is that I must be open to every aspect of the game to get the best possible gear. Not just farming and crafting, not just questing and buying, and not just PvP. All of it. But, aside from the constant need to generate gold, not too much of any one thing.

So now, I have my list. When I talk to a 'chanter, I know what I want. I know what gems I need. I know which bosses might drop my wand. As Svu has implied, this is actually freeing. With priorities established, I know what I need to accomplish. Do you?

I had a look at be Imba... It told me to come back when I was level 80... But you can get suggestions (for us lower level toons) on possible upgrades to your gear at wowarmory.com. I'm sure everyone already knows that, though...

But for right now, I'm looking at getting my grubby little mitts on the Battlegear of Valor... I picked up the Belt and Gauntlets in the AH to replace some older gear, and have just now grabbed the Bracers as well, and have looked into what it would take to get the other 5 pieces... Looks like I'll be needing to hit Stratholme, Scholomance and apparently, the Hall of Blackhand...

LMAO I love ur siggy

Be careful no to overrate be.imba. It's a good tool, though it's quite "cold" at times. It analizes gear score, but bars are just a reference. For instance, it's almost a must for a tank to be def capped (or very close to cap)in order to run raids, however, be.imba doesn't reflect that.

And be careful as well no to over-gear, or "fear" the content. As cross was saying, he prepared, and it's well prepared. In fact, he's so prepared that it makes almost no sense for him to run heroics to get gear. In fact, he's geared enough to run much higher content, and upgrades now will come from those tougher raids.

A beautiful example is our friend Slov. If ya armory-him you'll notice rep gear (not exalted), some dungeons and drops. He even got a totem lvl 63 and a kara drop. Would you say he can do heroics? Damn right he can. We went to heroic UK and wtfpwn the place, with awesome heals. Would you say he has enough gear for raids? Damn right he has. We also did venture into Vault of Archavon, where he performed as Off-healer against a very well geared Main-Healer. Difference in heals between 'em was close, and he again did an awesome work.

Why this example? As Khar told somewhere, heroics are NOT as tough as they used to be. Blizz has made the content available to more people making it not-so-tough. Same goes for Raids. You do not need the BEST crafted gear, nor the rep gear from exalted to get to do heroics. Yoy DO need to play at your best, and the only way to do this, is go there, practice, learn and die. And research on forums. Specs and rotations are as important as gear.

I am already looking for better ways to upgrade my DPS, so i can be more useful on a run. Gear is important, but to get it first i must check my spec and my rotation as khor said (he is helping me with that a lot, thanks honey, you are the best ). I love instances, and i want to be able to join on the "big" runs as soon as i can.
I think you are ready to star going after some heroics and I trust you'll do just fine
sky is the limit for this lovely guild
I am not even 70 yet, working on 80 slowly, but I am always open (when got time ) for a run to somewhere or to join on a group for pvp also... I love pvp more than instances And I would like to try an arena someday... (if somebody know of an instance when you can kill gnomes you will make the happiest warlock on the game )


Well, good luck to all on the big search for the better gear!

And sorry for bad english

Hugs to all!

Ok Khor, ya outed me. Warlocks are used to getting beat up all the time. I get laggy and don't always play my character as well as possible. I simply don't have, and never will have again, the quick reflexes and situational awareness some of you bring to runs. This is one reason I play locks and hunters. My response is to control what I can control, improve what I can improve, and make Crosslock as strong as possible so that I am able to hold up my end. As has been said repeatedly, both here about playing and on dA about fancy 3D software, some of you may not have the latest and greatest but you really know how to use what you have. I, on the other hand, want every possible advantage I can get. And, far from being pitable, I'm very happy this way.

The numbers now say I'm ready for 25 player Naxx. I'll never be there. Where I will be is with you, bringing the best I have -- doing the best I can. And to contradict Khor just a bit, my new wand waits for me in one of four Northrend dungeons, only one of which is heroic.

LOL, one advantage of looking geared up is that healers in WG and SotA actually do heal me once in a while now.

Finally, I echo the caution about BeImba. Remember that it cares only for raid preparation. I suspect a holy priest who completely followed BeImba's advice would have a very tough time doing Icecrown solo quests. It is a very valuable tool but you need to follow the links. You need to evaluate the advice. You need to balance the trade offs.

[Edit] Oh yeah, almost forgot. One needed JC pattern and my Arcanum will come from Kirin'Tor rep so I'm really happy to run lvl80 and heroic dungeons for the foreseeable future.

Kanae...you english is GREAT, certainly better than my spanish and better than what I see American high school kids writing.

Thanks for the advice Khor, I was using Be Imba more as a source. I used the items it identified as low level as a starting point to research better items. I googled them or looked them up on wowhead to compile my list. It is far from complete but it let me set some goals.

Right now, my goal is to increase my DPS. It is likely that i will respec a bit too, although I am basically happy with the BM/MM combo I have going, but it can be tweaked.

Khor, are there any macros you use to keep DPS up? I was thinking about setting a "send pet in and start steady shot" type of macro.

Be very careful about "and then" type macros. Blizzard will allow macros that emulate anything you can do by keybinding but may conside macros that "do this then do that" to be automating game play. We have had several warlocks warned and one temporarily suspended for automating spell rotations with macros. Apparently "target this then shoot it" macros are also potential problems. This came up with an Icecrown quest to shoot down planes. It was ok to automate and spam targeting, but they wanted us to push another button to shoot.

@Svu

I am no big fan of macros. Will not discuss here, since it's not important to the thread, still, there are a few macros I do use.

CODE

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus,exists,nodead] Misdirection; [target=pet,exists,nodead] Misdirection

This will cast misdirection on your focus target (/focus while targeting your tank, once, then you will always misdirect into him) or, if you ddon't have a focus target, MD onto your pet. This is the 2nd button i push before the fight starts.

This one's spec dependent, still:

CODE

/stopcasting
/cast Silencing Shot

As we hunters are casting Steady Shot non-stop, if you want to silence/cc a target you usually have to "wait" until SS has been shot and GCD (global cooldown) has expired before doing it. But silenicing a mob is something yoy need RIGHT NOT, not a sec later. So, this macro helps by stoping the cast and fire away your CC shot.


Last, my MOST used macro:

CODE

#showtooltip
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !auto shot
/cast Kill Command
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Start auto attack, use SS and whenever it's available, Kill Comand. This is your "mash" button. You must spam this button at all times, almost non stop.

Hope this helps

Ty :$

Voted for “Level More Toons! I'm not a one toon perosn” (person lol). But I’m game for most of whats listed.

Hopefully I’ll get reinvigorated and get back into the game a lot more than I have recently.

My frustration is building again. Crosslock is exaulted with every Northrend faction possible. I actually am now where Khor placed me back in early March. I have reached the end of my solo road. I now must have equally geared (or almost equally geared highly skilled) players to accompany me if I am to go on. Boz, the same. Tori, the same. Bu, Ct, Zeph, and others may be here too.

Our best six or seven players, plus several Tori alts, can run every standard dungeon. There are some heroics we can do and some not. My only marginal improvements left pre-raiding come from emblems. While those improvements are slight at best, they are the only way forward for me that I see now. So I will try to be on as much as possible. Runs will be my priority. First will be the heroics we can finish and the ten player raids we think we can do with VOID. Second will be the heroics we can't finish yet. Third will be the runs that won't help me but will help you.

I have asked before. Do you know how to improve your main? Do you know what gear and skills you need? Do you know where to find that gear and learn those skills? If not, I will still enjoy your company. We will still be guild friends for a while. But you will not be helping me and our guild improve. And for a dedicated player or WoW guild, it's improve or give up.

I'm trying my very best to improve and am researching it....but health and other issues are getting in the way Plus the time difference sucks for me. I need heroic runs and of course they usually are early hours of the morning. Im finding it harder to stay up till early hours of the morning, because of my health, so I just miss out and have to try to find other ways to improve.

I have been researching what to do with my hunter. I have reached all my interim steps. I have also been working to level my priest. My thinking is that another healer will come in very handy when raiding or doing instances.

Of course I understand the RL impediments to playing. Many of us have serious issues going on now. This is why I emphasized knowing, which is within everyone's capabilities. Knowing what you need to do is more than half the battle. Knowing will let you frankly assess your capabilities to do certain runs. Knowing will allow you to set your own priorities better. The less time one has to play, the more important it is to get everything you can out of your playing time, including fun.

AND it is more fun, at least for me, to know when I'm helping my character or yours actually get necessary items. We often can do runs on Saturday mornings (US) and Sunday afternoons. As more people gear up, we can look for more weekday opportunities too.

Unlike many other ex-Deviants; I am still here, Tori is still here, Boz is still... well wherever Boz is because we don't want to leave anyone behind. Certainly not our kitten of death.

lmao kitten of death......me likes that name

I'm close to where CB is, though not rep wise, I've looked into rep gear, it just isn't great for me except the Ebon Blade chest, which I have. I'm getting the PvP purples, they are very nice, the blues (which make up the actual set) to put it frankly, suck. Gone are the BC days where PvP armor sets were gold to go into heroics and raids with, now it takes concentrated work in a varity of areas, and each classs needs to work in its own area to do its best. Everyone NEEDS Sons of Hodir, period. Sorry, that's life, but rep with them isn't to hard once you do the chains in Storm Peaks.

I've searched "WoW Rogue Gear" on Google, and have found an area by area, dungeon by dungeon guide that shows me the absolute BEST gear availiable for a group rogue. With the PvP stuff I have, LW purples and blues from Tori, a dagger from Ct, and some bling from CB, I'm pretty much at the end of my solo game as well, need to get some lower heroic stuff before tackling the higer ones, or at least it is suggested. I'm working for all purple!!

I'm pretty much 'solo gear capped' and I'm sure many others are as well beyond CB. With the engineering rogue goggles or the PvP helm, and a pair of PvP boots, that's pretty much it beyond very rare world drops.

Yeah sons of hodir is my next after kirin tor

Why don't I get a cool nickname? I was a double-o agent once... I should be called slash or deathhand or Crossbane or gnome-eater or angelcthone or deathbringer or ...

Actually, Bu works great! Who would ever think a guy called Bu by his friends would be so swift in delivering death? Kitten of death is pretty scary, I'm glad you're my friend.

Bu I'd take that "I'm glad youre my friend as a compliment but I know it means you're just scared of me"

I call you Boo Bu lmao does that help any?

Oh, it is so Boo Bu in chat from now on...

I'm not particularly worried by mages, but rogues... *shudder* We could call you "Stretch" since you are the tallest main in the guild as well as the tallest Deviant in RL?

Rep can be very important. I agree that most rep gear will be worthless by the time you eearn it or quickly replaced. But don't forget the inscriptions and arcanae. These will not be superseded quickly. You will be going back to the faction QM every time you replace your head or shoulder item most likely. And most are available at "Revered."

Another reason to work together toward full-on raiding is that emblems too are much less valuable than were BoJ's in BC. I'm not sure that the cloth chests available to me from emblems are any better than the ebonweave I bought.

The one thing that holds its value id gold. Frankly it's easier sometimes for me to just buy the crafted items and enchants I need rather than chase down guild crafters. (Just watch the mats vs. finished item ratios. The dagger Ct made me this week would have cost me about 950 if I had bought all the mats but the least expensive one at AH was over 1400. So this time it was very advantageous to have Ct offer to make it.) We are talking a lot of gold to get some of this stuff but time comparisons between dailies for gold and BG's for the BC S2 armor set is not bad.

I guess I'm saying that, while doing a certain daily for the 100th time can be mind numbing, I know what I'm hoiping to do with the gold and that anticipation keeps me going in solo play.

H UP yesterday night wasn't complete, but it wasn't a failure. We collected 2 emblems and some decent stuff for Zeph. We'll get there.

I wan't to empressed by badge gear when I first looked through it, but I'll look again and see what's there. High level dungeons and Heroic drops will be the best for us.

I'm gonna download a dps calculator to see what I'm actually doing. CB and his crits make me angry, but I bet I'm close if not equal to him, and I's got's Sap's!

And he has better gear.

Take that, Mushroom!

It's good to have dreams and goals. Your goal to beat my DPS is quite laudable. I sincerely wish you success. Here's why.

It has been almost a week since I have successfully completed a heroic instance.

Here's what it would take to defeat yesterdays boss. We lost the DPS race. Our tactics were sound (eventually) but we did not bring enough to the fight. Yes, a better geared tank who could have pulled and survived all the adds would be nice but that is not the way that fight goes. The adds come into the fight already strongly aggroed to the healer. We will need to be able to put out a combined AoE that kills the add snakeys in two ticks. Otherwise, we cannot get damage back onto the boss quickly enough. The longer the boss survives, the faster the adds come. Once our healer has to heal anyone other than the tank, and maybe off-tank, we enter the death spiral. This includes healing herself. No matter what you do then, you will lose eventually. This kind of fight is a parabolic climb into frantic craziness for healers. At the very beginning they can keep up easily, soon they can barely maintain, then they fall behind. As they are falling behind, the fight is actually getting tougher. The way through is for DPS to have trinks and tricks left toward the end so that our DPS can ramp up as the mobs multiply.

You and I can calculate to our heart's content. We can take comfort, or not, from the in-run DPS calculators. None of it matters except as a pointer to where we need to go. I am topped out on gear for now. So I try to learn to play better. No one else understands how uncomfortable I am leading DPS after years of coming in 2nd or 3rd. If I had been 3rd yesterday, we would have completed the instance. That is the only measure of performance that really matters to me.

This sounds like a rant at Bu. It isn't. With a few exceptions we are so lucky to have, we are a guild of DPS mains. My comment is for all of us.

It's not a rant, just truth. I agree, and being 3rd in dps with the tank not to far behind was a little dissapointing. I don't pop my trinkets or Shadow Dance enough, yes, but I could still do a lot more just by using a little one man tatctics and getting around the fight faster. I'm where you once were, comfortable knowing that I'm notexpected to be the best, but I really need to be and should be as a rogue. I'm not sure if this one is gear or play style, but I'm betting on both.

Actually, Mushroom, You beat me into the dirt with DPS...

I am far from "geared up" but have also been working on tactics. I don't use my trinkets enough and in the last heroic we ran, tired very hard to remember to switch between Viper and Hawk aspects to maximize Mana Regen and Damage.

I now pay attention to "Bestial Wrath" and hit it every time it is available in a Boss fight. Thanks to Bu and Oogie I have saronite arrows that I feel help my damage output.

As soon as I raise the gold for it, I will be dual speccing so that I can play with different specialties

We often suspect that the folks at Blizz have hidden agendas and devious plans. To an extent this may be true. Some aspects of the game I have noticed more and more in Northrend is that Blizz is no longer worried about leaving behind us folks with older machines and slower connections. I won't ever be a jousting champion with 700 ms lag times (at best; my average is about 1 sec). Nor will I be able to compete PvP against players with 100 ms pings.

But I can still be a player in PvE if I learn to compensate; if I know exactly what a warlock of my build and with my gear should do in every situation. I have to believe this or hang up my account. Gone are the days when gear was the whole story. Now we are challenged to get the most from our chosen class. It may feel like we keep banging our heads against the same walls in these uncompleted heroic runs but I hope I learn a little more each time.

I am encouraged by the frank comments Svu and Bu have made. My current goal in this game is to be able to run every Northrend heroic dungeon with a purely Deviant party and to run every current 10 player raid with a combined VOID-DoA group. This will require every player to be expert in their class. The big raiding guilds like Synapse may look down on our gear but we will actually be among the best players in Azuremyst if we can pull this off.

We will always have room in this guild for friends and casual players and I happily will run with you. But I don't make the rules of the game; you will not be seeing heroic Loken, Gal'darah, or Sjonnir die. You will not be testing yourself against Sartharion.

I guess I am basically a casual player, but I have been doing my research. One thing I have to say is I am very enamored with my priest! I have been playing her shadow to level her but am itching to fulfill a full healer role in an instance or raid.

You may see me on Svuca more and more. I finally got her to 70. Leveling solo is rough, but shadow is the way to go with that.

I'm always impressed by the players "older" than I. Older is in quotes because I'm not refering to RL age, but game age. CB is one of the "oldest" players I know, due to the fact he played the game back before he could even be a BE. Perel and Rain also hold similar respect, as do Boz and Tori. The three biggest, of course, are the three who pretty much held us together when I was ignorant and wimpy and around level 40. Those three are CB, Tori, and Bozzman. I'm still not sure how to match their play style or find the gear to get even close to as critically useful as any of them. Checking a simple DPS calculator in my last unfinished heroic put me 200 thousand above the tank, 200 thousand below Boziticus, and 700 thousand below The Mushroom. Maybe it was my build was boss focused and we were fighting multiple mobs at a time, maybe it's my gear, maybe it's because the longest fight we had was one I died about halfway through - right before the enemy healer jumpped in and started heal waving everything. If I had the best gear that I could possibly get, as I most definitly don't, I still don't think I'd be near CB's output. Shadowstep helps, but Ambush, Backstab, and Evicerate (my burst damage moves) just don't seem to do enough.

The problem I think is, WE ARE A DPS HEAVY GUILD and WE CAN NO LONGER RELY ON THE BIG GUYS TO PULL US THROUGH EVERYTHING. Being dps heavy is fine, but the dps needs to step it up to get bye the massive mob zergs in a lot of these new boss fights. Blizzard has found a new way to mess with groups, lots of hard hitting, low health mobs that rush the healer, and enter CB's death spiral. Our old "big guys" are no longer that big. CB was complaining the other day to me (why? who knows) about killing world mobs faster than him, due to his casting time. He brought up the point that if I could get in a few solid hours of PvP and rep grinding every few days that it wouldn't be long until I would far surpass him (or something like that). That really struck me, he's ALWAYS been stronger than me, ever since he cam to help me kill humans in Durotaur at level 7. He was 70 and PvP geared then, mind. The great equilizer, the expansion pack, has hit us, and people who were once 'wimps' now could contend with those in our guild who were unreachable. Gear will take work, but put in the time and you'll get it. I realize that a lot of us don't have the time, and I understand that very well. Just don't be discouraged if it takes weeks to get the rep, or hours just to get into a BG for some random set of bracers only a few points better than those you made for yourself. Every little bit helps, I'm much better with only a few points.

Also, Blizz dropped my talent points again, and I realized after assigning that I made a slight error in my group spec. My off hand is weaker, but my crits are stronger... So Maybe I'll reach bast 6000 damage, though the slight loss in off hand damage may not be worth it.

This is WAY longer than intended. Sorry about that.

When I got to 70, I was able to purchase S1 gear with BG PvP honor points and marks. Shortly after I was full S1, the arena season moved on to 4 and S2 became generally available. I was full S2 when I moved into Northrend. I was level 78 before the last piece of that was replaced.

Yesterday morning I was still wearing my level 80 PvP blue legs and shoulders. My honor was capped at 75k. The arena season cycled again and now I can get purple. I bought the legs yesterday afternoon and I will be going back to WG and BG's to afford the shoulders. None of the other pieces are better than the crafted and dropped stuff I have in other slots. The new pieces are only incrementally better BUT we are losing some boss fights by small margins. Take a look at the new stuff and see if any of it will help you.

Perhaps I think this way because I am a JC but it seems to me that enchants, inscriptions, arcanum, armor kits/spellthread, glyphs, etc. are determined by your class and build; things that never or rarely change. But gems can be used to rebalance your stats every time you equip a new piece of gear. I look at total beneficial stats on a piece because I know that if I equip a piece that, for example, takes me over my hit cap; I can always re-gem to lower hit and increase something else I still need. Please consider this and talk to Crosslock and Oria. We want to help you be the best you can be.

(Oh that reminds me, duh, I need to get thread for my new trousers. )

It recycled? Yay! New stuff for me, I's bets.

Research has delivered me a new spec, which was luckily my side spec already. Got that glyphed and presto! I'm a combat rouge with PvP and boss burst from Sub.